tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post5934898692931632718..comments2024-03-18T00:16:37.094-05:00Comments on ikat bag: Subtleties in Drafting: SleevesLiErhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13022645291278425282noreply@blogger.comBlogger202125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-55648598312329057442022-10-18T15:23:14.036-05:002022-10-18T15:23:14.036-05:00Wow. Thank you so much for this post!
I've cur...Wow. Thank you so much for this post!<br />I've currently drafted the bodice but was getting stuck on fitting the sleeve, even using the Minott method. This post clears up a lot of issues and makes so much sense. Flatter cap here I come!Tracy Tomlinsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-54019872805215795572022-09-16T12:49:10.647-05:002022-09-16T12:49:10.647-05:00Yes, I am late to the party, but I am so glad to f...Yes, I am late to the party, but I am so glad to find your article. You are brilliant at explaining this. The fog has lifted thanks to a Kleenex box and your samples/photos. It is only everything I needed to understand about sleeves. I am not worthy. Please write a book full of vital info like this. Pretty please. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-69000281325421920552022-05-16T00:19:01.299-05:002022-05-16T00:19:01.299-05:00Unknown: I'm so sorry to have missed this comm...Unknown: I'm so sorry to have missed this comment and taken this long to respond to your questions. Thank you for your kind words! <br />1 A well-fitted sleeve cap will usually not be completely symmetrical about the midline. The front of the sleeve cap is usually wider, with deeper curves to accommodate the ball of the shoulder joint (which sits toward the front of the body and not the back) and the subsequent motion of the arm in the forward direction. When a sleeve is drafted to fit very loosely (such as for a men's T-shirt or a puff sleeve), so much design ease is introduced that the shapes of the front and back portions could be indistinct from each other. <br /><br />2 It's mainly the distance, yes, although the shapes should correspond i.e. so that they are of similar and complementary curvatures. <br /><br />3 You're right that drag lines indicate that something is not fitting correctly, which becomes more obvious (the discomfort, I mean, not necessarily the drag lines) when the wearer is moving. But without seeing the actual garment on the wearer, I can't visualize where the problem might be. LiErhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13022645291278425282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-2643276810952745582022-05-16T00:07:07.194-05:002022-05-16T00:07:07.194-05:00Mary BC: I wandered back here tonight, 2 years aft...Mary BC: I wandered back here tonight, 2 years after you'd left this comment and was aghast that I hadn't responded to your question. I'm so sorry. I hope you've subscribed to the comments and will see this reply. I believe that there isn't a particular size of armscye for each person, like a magic number we apply to each and every garment we make for that person. Yes, you're right about armscyes being cut in different sizes for different garments. Sometimes this is for design reasons - looser fit garments probably won't have the same armscye size as a tight-fit one, for instance. Sometimes this is for functional reasons: e.g. jackets and parkas are meant to be worn over layers of additional garments, and the sleeves and armscyes must be made larger to accommodate that. This roomier-sleeve consideration adds to the comfort level of a garment that could have otherwise been constricting to movement. And yes, it is entirely possible to intentionally draft larger armscyes when necessary (or desired), and fitting the sleeves correspondingly to attain comfort and range of movement.LiErhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13022645291278425282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-75899552807880971902022-05-03T16:11:17.635-05:002022-05-03T16:11:17.635-05:00Your knowledge is our treasure!! Thank you for mak...Your knowledge is our treasure!! Thank you for making it so relevant and easy to understand. May God bless and increase your skills. 💛Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-33616631200911361332021-12-06T22:38:49.009-06:002021-12-06T22:38:49.009-06:00Thanks a lot for that wonderful post, it's jus...Thanks a lot for that wonderful post, it's just cristal clear now !Tiffanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15617936779149984868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-60152005625309897852021-10-18T23:41:45.952-05:002021-10-18T23:41:45.952-05:00Oh, I needed this post, thank you! I'm making ...Oh, I needed this post, thank you! I'm making some Halloween wizard robes from a pattern I purchased and the sleeves are giving me fits. The sleeve cap is 2 inches bigger than the armscye and there is something wrong with the symmetry. So now I need to draft a whole new sleeve and this post plus the others you have on sleeves are helping a ton! It's really answered some questions I had about the shape of the sleeve cap. KathyDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14540207161018330194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-88153097931828343472021-10-18T16:15:28.213-05:002021-10-18T16:15:28.213-05:00I am so glad you are getting into some drafting. ...I am so glad you are getting into some drafting. It is such a wonderful world... never stop learning. So exciting ... and Lier is quite competent and clear in her explanations. Here’s a tutorial that might also interest you. http://www.ikatbag.com/2014/03/subtelties-in-drafting-sleeves.html#comment-formI am so glad you are getting into some drafting. It is such a wonderful world... never stop learning. So exciting ... and Lier is quite competent and clear in her explanations. Here’s a tutorial that might also interest you. http://www.ikatbag.com/2014/03/subtelties-in-drafting-sleeves.html#comment-formTerri Verrethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04394408371923970618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-85148298578520959032021-10-18T15:48:24.629-05:002021-10-18T15:48:24.629-05:00Gee I’m so glad you are getting into a bit of draf...Gee I’m so glad you are getting into a bit of drafting ... such a wonderful world.. Very good advice from Lier; the french in me could not have said it in those clear explanations. You might also be interested in this turorial for added applications. Good luck http://www.flamencodressmaking.com/2010/12/how-to-sew-sleeves-that-let-you-move/?goal=0_8719536d39-f5d5903f07-127696481<br /><br />Terri Verrethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04394408371923970618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-63034435692026579372021-10-16T21:42:29.913-05:002021-10-16T21:42:29.913-05:00Esther: As long as you keep the length of the slee...Esther: As long as you keep the length of the sleeve cap the same (i.e. the length of the curved edge), you can play around with the shape of that curve. I'd say try drawing a flatter curve and measure its length to be sure it is still the same. Sometimes, you will have to increase the overall width of the sleeve cap, too, in order for that curve to stay the same length.LiErhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13022645291278425282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-30560989459570367692021-10-12T16:36:04.672-05:002021-10-12T16:36:04.672-05:00This post has been very helpful in showing me why ...This post has been very helpful in showing me why my recent (and first ever) self-drafted sleeve looks fine but doesn’t allow me to raise my arm much. Do you have a suggested method for how to flatten the sleeve cap that I have already drafted? How to go from the yellow paper sleeve to the pink one? Thank you!Estherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06529648765949385549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-68833933141956600072021-09-08T16:14:33.121-05:002021-09-08T16:14:33.121-05:00Wow! The Kleenex box was a revelation!!! I will ...Wow! The Kleenex box was a revelation!!! I will be reading this article over and over. Thank you!parrotmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536938320004417337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-16114903133579638832021-07-20T15:17:33.428-05:002021-07-20T15:17:33.428-05:00The moment when I saw that pic of the 3 paper tube...The moment when I saw that pic of the 3 paper tubes lined up and you said "the diameters are different", my brain flooded me with so many surprise-delight-satisfaction chemicals, I swear, I thought I was having a religious experience.meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14680517897415790140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-25422966898140025212021-06-05T08:49:34.953-05:002021-06-05T08:49:34.953-05:00You do look lovely in that dress! You do look lovely in that dress! Diane Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09747076453639276600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-26854403466950129872021-03-01T18:16:11.049-06:002021-03-01T18:16:11.049-06:00Hello Diya, and thank you for your kind words abou...Hello Diya, and thank you for your kind words about this post. I'm always surprised that people are still finding and reading this old post, and it's good to know it's been helpful to you! Regarding the relative length of the front vs back armscye, I've actually been taught the opposite! In fitted garments, the front armscye should be longer (and curvier) than the back. And the front and back sleeve caps are similarly and correspondingly different, too. This is to accommodate the forward movement of the arm in the shoulder socket (the arm does not move backward) as well as the ball of that shoulder joint itself. The back armscye is typically straighter, curving only in the armpit area to join up with the side seam.<br />In my own drafting, the difference between front and back armscye length isn't very large - usually anywhere between 1/4" to 3/4" (often around 1/2"), depending on the wearer's individual contours or the style of the garment.<br /><br />I have seen quite a few commercial patterns in which the front and back sleeve caps are identical (i.e. the sleeve is completely symmetrical along its center fold line!) A bit mystifying - as it caused me to wonder if the front and back armscyes were correspondingly identical (or at least the same length), too. I never checked to see. My guess is the armholes for those patterns were very large (or at least cut very low i.e. farther from the armpit) so as to allow them to be identical and not tight.<br />LiErhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13022645291278425282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-58384664911951590882021-03-01T08:24:54.374-06:002021-03-01T08:24:54.374-06:00Hello Lier, I might not be the only one who has re...Hello Lier, I might not be the only one who has read this post literally word-by-word a zillion times. I love the explanation and am amazed by your knowledge. I have a question, hope you will choose to reply when you find time. I draft my own patterns for myself and others and I do exactly like your brown sleeve a medium sleeve cap, so with my sleeves full range of movement is gaurenteed , which I love. My armhole on pattern is cut close to body (like your blue dress )and I always end up with back armsyce being equal to front armsyce(sometimes smaller by 1/8 inch). My sleeve crowns are almost equal or a tiny bit larger(0.5inch) than total armsyce. The fit is great always . So I have read that the back armsyce must measure bigger than front armsyce. what is this logic ? I assume this apply to armholes which are too wide and for sleeves with steeper caps. What's your opinion?<br /><br />(I am referring to patterns for woven only) <br /><br />Have a great day. Virtual hugsDiyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02942255567187249540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-68794203245809290692021-02-04T10:08:56.854-06:002021-02-04T10:08:56.854-06:00this is the best explanation i've ever seen of...this is the best explanation i've ever seen of sleeve caps. I can't thank you enough. GEnius!!!! KarenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-15692226534223438182020-11-02T08:46:37.954-06:002020-11-02T08:46:37.954-06:00Wow! Thank you so much for this post. Because Co...Wow! Thank you so much for this post. Because Covid.....I started looking up how to enlarge a robe pattern from 8 years to 14 yo and then wondered how to attack the armscye etc. This was very informative and so helpful for me to understand the construction. I've only just begun sewing a year ago and have made some dresses and jogging style pants for my kids. I've always admired well-constructed shirts and this gives me much more insight. Thank you so much again. I'll be looking up more of your posts to see what else I can learn from here. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-72401167067414438562020-09-19T13:34:38.844-05:002020-09-19T13:34:38.844-05:00Thank you very much taking the time to post your c...Thank you very much taking the time to post your conception of sleeves and armhole fit. So many revelations! "This means you can choose, for the same armhole, the angle of set for your sleeve according to the function of your garment."Miminoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-32373046175641810882020-05-04T17:03:01.499-05:002020-05-04T17:03:01.499-05:00I agree, such a valuable post, it was like someone...I agree, such a valuable post, it was like someone turned on the light. The kleenex box demonstration is invaluable though I thought armscyes were cut different sizes on different garments (e.g. larger on jackets vs close fit knit garments). Is that not a fit adjustment to work with also? The difference in the fit of the yellow stripe blouse sleeves (red vs brown) is inspiring! thank you. Mary BCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-22565126073884831542020-04-06T18:52:00.075-05:002020-04-06T18:52:00.075-05:00Six years later this is still a very valuable post...Six years later this is still a very valuable post. Thank you very much.Nancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02732790734946248869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-2806900107257999682019-09-12T10:59:05.128-05:002019-09-12T10:59:05.128-05:00Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have returned ...Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have returned to sewing because I can't find decent RTW these days. For three days, I have searched for how to lower the height of a cap. (I'm using a decades old pattern that makes a small puff sleeve.) And also, how/where to measure the armscye and the cap.<br /><br />I'm so glad I kept looking! I will keep your site in my Favorites for sure!Nancy C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-33050971268919735282019-07-01T11:36:03.954-05:002019-07-01T11:36:03.954-05:00This is such a great tutorial and I feel that it h...This is such a great tutorial and I feel that it has cleared up so many things! I have a few questions though. <br /><br />1) why is that yellow sleeve pattern asymmetrical? Is it because you have to accommodate the steeper curve at the front part of the underarm? Does that mean the front half of the sleeve is supposed to have more width than the back half, when it's without any variation such as a sleeve placket?<br /><br />2) When you say that the inflection points on the armscye should match up with those on the sleeve, does that mean the shape of the curve below the inflection point should be the same on the armscye and on the sleeve? Or is it just that the distance should be the same?<br /><br />3) In a recent shirt I made, there are drag lines on the back of the armscye along the direction of the underarm curve, yet also a gaping problem higher up on the back...I think the gape can be fixed with a dart, but the drag lines (or pulls) confuse me. It usually means something is too tight, but I'm not sure what needs to be extended or trimmed. Do you have any suggestion on which part I should be adjusting?<br /><br />Again, this is a wonderful post. Thank you so much for the detailed explanation.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14683934481439139303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-27774324987836781402019-04-26T19:12:22.137-05:002019-04-26T19:12:22.137-05:00Thank you so much for such an insightful, and help...Thank you so much for such an insightful, and helpful discussion of sleeve caps and armscyes. Your treatment of the armsyce diameter was truly so very helpful to me and answered a bunch of why questions that floated through my head as vague dissatisfaction over fit of my various tank top drafting efforts - I never realized how the armscye diameter affected fit. Your discussion and pictures were so very illuminating. I am saving this page and your blog. rebalspirithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13899545047749165346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4540761711646097949.post-17900164250161026672019-04-04T00:36:08.392-05:002019-04-04T00:36:08.392-05:00bonster: if there is a mathematical method that re...bonster: if there is a mathematical method that results in a flatter vs. sharper shape, I am not aware of it, sadly. I have always chosen my sleeve cap shapes (i.e. the flatness or sharpness thereof) by "feel". Many drafting people like the security of having a numerical method but I suspect in real-world drafting, people freehand curves and such a lot more than use geometry and formulae. It's initially intimidating, but give it a shot and make a muslin to see what that free-handed flatter curve looks like as an actual sleeve. You might be surprised at how un-difficult it is to see a correlation between what you drew and how that fits.LiErhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13022645291278425282noreply@blogger.com